i there in one more thing. i think sadly we are living in a more selfish era. i think nobody really wants to pay the costs. for example, an average person at 65, about to enter medicare has paid $122,000 into the medicare system. >> rose: 122,000. >> thousand, they will get back inflation adjusted, they will get back $377,000 dollars over their ellerly years. you don't have to have study a lot of math to know those numbers don't work. and so all this debt we're piling up, these 800, 900 billion dollar deficits, all these promises, we're sticking on our children. and that to me is very depressing. >> rose: everybody believes the way out of this is to do two things. one is to have a gradual process that will put us on a trend that will make significant inroads into the debt, right? >> and part of that is growth of the economy but also it is something like the kind of deal you're talking about, a grand bargain, or whatever it is, that has to do with revenues and having to do with spending cuts. and there was a proposal of that called simpson bowles. >> there was, indeed.